Why we got the formula all wrong

Hello my friends,

The following is a logical argumentation about PMO and our life with the conclusion at the end. If your are interested please read till there.

Lately i habe thought a lot about PMO, my life, the advice in this forum etc. We all want to quit PMO. Why? That’s different for anybody but we all want to get rid of negative consequences and/or reap the positive benefits, in short we want to improve our life. So to summarize that in a formula:

Me - PMO = better Life

So why do so many of us fail in such a worthwhile endavour?
I once saw a youtube video about an experiment with rats. They were given normal water as well as water with a drug (i think it was cocaine). The rats drank the drug water until they died.
But interestingly in the second part of the experiment, rats were put in a whole different environment with lots of space, other rats etc. They enjoyed a much better life. In this scenario most rats abstained from the drug water and chose the normal one.

It’s similar for us humans. We tend towards addiction when our life is unfulfilled. Therefore the formula could be:

Me + improved life = no PMO

That’s the reasoning i had some years ago. When i thought once i’m in a relationship and married i wont need to fap anymore. I am married now, my life has improved, still here I am…
Furthermore many of us are hindered by PMO and cannot as easily improve there life without quitting.
So that’s not the whole truth as well. But what is?

Possibly it is not just as straight forward as linear conditonality. Causes have effects. So much is true. But it is not always just ‘when A, then B’.
In buddhism as well as in modern systems theory we find the concept of dependend co-arising. That means causes have effects not only on the outcome but on one another and there are feedbackloops from cause to effect, which effects the cause itself etc.
So quitting PMO will have positive effects but if you dont fill the ‘void’ positively, you will fall back or possibly get another addiction to fill the hole.
On the other hand you need to quit PMO to make space for life improvement in the first place.

Maybe the formular is more like this:

Me - X(less PMO) = Me + Y(improved Life)

There is some Balance between a better life and PMO. The more of the one you have, the less of the other will be there. That might not be done from one day to the other but as a process.
E.g. use less porn, masturbate less. Use the time you gain for workout, studying, meditation and such. Use your improved state to use even less porn etc.
Don’t forget to reward yourself, but do it with good things and awareness, not with porn. Still you will make it easier for yourself if you give yourself some short term rewards. It will take time for the other things to pay off.

Another point is to change your mindset. The more you realize how unfullfilling that addiction is, the less attraktive it will be and therefore will have less impact on your well being and your life. For that you have to develop awareness and look past the Initial pleasure.

What I really want to say:
Don’t just try quitting PMO. Take a look at your whole life. There is nothing like an independent phenomenon, everything is connected.
QIUITTING PMO WILL NOT SOLVE ALL YOUR PROBLEMS, you have to take care of them as well anyway.
Improve your life amd your mindset as a whole! That might be the only lasting solution.

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Life is not a formula but the saying nature has no vaccums, you remove something ,other thing fills its place - good or bad
you remove pmo from life, fill it with something good

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No it’s not a formula :slightly_smiling_face:
That was just a picture to make it better understandable

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there was this saying, pictures tell thousand words

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I totally agree on the conclusion that we have to make the effort to workout or actually actively improve our lives in other satisfying ways be it religion, hobbies etc. To create a dream or desire for something other than porn is the end goal and this must be done with the right attitude aswell with the right mindset.

However the improvement on life or expanding it well not so much. I feel the other aspect worth exploring here is also convenience. Look like get that the rats drank less of the drugged water in a smaller space than with the bigger one. But if I had to run so far and I saw water to quench my thrist I would drink whatever water it is. The same in the small area, sure I would use the drugged water more often as I get more highs out of it frequently.

But this experiment is influenced by alot of factors such as potency of the drug, amouts consumed and aswell if so in the small cage if the water contaminated is replaced with normal water and as well do they really go after it should the water relocate.

But the point I wanna make from a human stand point is we as guys can’t escape our parts/device/enviroment (this is more like the small cage) everything is readily accessible and available. Our environment is also the big cage too as our place and times to do it differ.

But we are mostly in the same tipe environment our home( our room small scale) the workplace (going more big scale) and the routine mainly the same get up- go to work- go home- sleep etc in between and repeating cycle. For most.

Also other stuff like more finance can influnce us to do more like go to the gym or party or do more then the other guy that doesn’t have the same pay as me. Also personality also plays a roll even if you do get the same pay you both have different ways to use the money. But the fact remains than you are more privileged than a poorer guy in comparison to you.

So also our drug(pmo) influence us too all differently. Some fapped 5 times a day others 1 time. Also maybe 2 hours to 30 mins of porn between different guys.

To this conclusion having these stuff in higher availability we would rather choose it as it is convenient and also provides comfort. As well as I could also lead a better life but still include sexual activities in my life, either through my partner and/or through pmo too as this is also another factor. There isn’t a balance really between an improved life on nofap and pmo. Use less of one = increase of the other one. I mean pmo is part of our daily routine and also doing more through a day sure will give you less time to do pmo, but you can still fit it in as you build a better scheduling.

In the end you might build up resistance towards your workout fatigue/ daily fatigue and also work quicker with more exp, but fact remains convenience. Are you putting yourself or exposing that element ? Because I wanna say having a porn blocker for example passively yes you win it, but actively you think about it and wanna tipe it into the search bar, but the porn blocker just makes it inconvenient to watch it rather than to completely stop you as you will solve this problem by deleting the blocker to get to the porn. As well as starting a nofap journey.

No matter how much you do in the end you constantly think about pmo and it still gets carried over by you no matter how big your streak is. Just delaying and inconveniencing yourself into not doing it well is just a ticking bomb and that’s why relapses occur. To make it an active habit in blocking your thoughts yourself and to make nofap a lifestyle than rather than a inconvenience is the actual way to beat it.

Good luck and sorry for the long read.

Stay strong and awesome !

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hey anthe

Perfect argument and amazing study (:joy: i used and posted the very same argument and study many times before :smile: )

Some things from my side:

  • What your equation describes is the state where you are aware of the present moment. You actively make the decision between porn and life. A second part is to learn to be in the present moment. If you are on autopilot, your habit of pmo will always win and you wake up deep within the hole of pmo without a choice to get out again.
    –> Besides improving your life you also have to learn to stay in the present moment
  • You talk about a better life and mention things like having a wife, having a job, having hobbies. But that’s actually not what happiness is. What use is a job if you are always pressured to perform well in front of your peers? What use is a wife if you fear that she figures out your secrets?
    –> True happiness can only be obtained by living the Dao. You do your job because you truly love it, you show your true self to your peer and wife and so on.
  • I also saw that there is kind of a threshold. For about 2 years I improved my life in all areas. But my streak never increased. Only recently I started to see the trend that my active mind starts to prefer real life over PMO. So, it can actually take a lot of effort until you even see some results
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Yes exactly @neveragaintw and also one can’t always work or wanna exercise and whatever. Trust me when one wakes up in the middle of the night is one really going to get up to do push ups or do a cold shower. Nope, one will rather lay down in bed and on point on maybe the nightmare/horney feeling. Also there are thoughts and things like a dm or a chat with a colleague that can throw you off.

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Thank you all for your great replys
I don’t think my post hit an objective truth, it was merely a stage of thinking. With your help i can built upon that

This is so great in this forum, it helps to put ones own thoughts into words and get Feedback you can reflect on.
Thank you :slightly_smiling_face:

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