Curiosity poll: how do you define masculinity?


#1

Hey all,
Since I joined this app about a month ago, I’ve read a lot of messages and posts from people around the world of different races, ages, and genders. I appreciate everyone sharing, making themselves vulnerable, and supporting each other.

I also see a lot of shaming of self and other, I see a lot of misogyny and homophobia in statements people make. I see these things as directly related to the porn industry and violence toward women in general.

So now I am curious: what is your definition of masculinity? What does it mean to you to be a man, those of you who are men here? If you’re a woman or other gender, what do you think about these questions?

Much love, y’all,
MJ


#2

For me a REAL MAN means one who is brave,courageous,protects his family and loved ones and badass

Also he should be not be dependent on anyone


#3

I always like to go by the saying, “a man should be the only one who doesn’t cry at his father’s funeral” meaning he should be the emotional beast of burden, taking care of others before himself.

Further he should act honorably towards everyone, giving a good example to his family/friends, he should provide for those he loves.

I could describe a lot of it in detail but really what it comes down to is selflessness in terms of love and care and peace through strength.

I’m curious though, how do you see violence towards women on a digital platform with barely any women? Also where have you seen misygony and homophobia here?

Those are kind of big words to throw around and I don’t think any of us really care to be politically correct on a site where we are trying to quit porn. This is the one place where I can escape Western politics, so I hope we aren’t going to be berated for “toxic masculinity”

In terms of homophobia, if you are referring to other guys talking about how they don’t want to be gay or be perceived as gay, how is that homophobic (if that is not what you were referring to then ignore me here)? Straight men who want to find a female partner will need to act masculine in order to do so. Women aren’t interested in dating gay men, so it’s not a crime to not want to act like one.

I just am kind of irritated how passive aggressively you attacked us then asked us a question like you are about to go on a rant because we are all wrong and you have the right answer.

You’ve been here for a very short amount of time to be making such judgments of good men who are trying to better themselves.


#4

Radical self acceptance, openness, authenticity and courage.


#5

Thank you for your reply, @Special_Bird. I appreciate your taking the time to think about what I had to say and responding to it. Thank you for sharing your opinion on what it means to you to be a man.

By your response, I can see where I have been unskillful in what I wrote. You asked, “I’m curious though, how do you see violence towards women on a digital platform with barely any women? Also where have you seen misygony and homophobia here?”

It would’ve been better for me to give you specific quotations, but I honestly don’t have them. However, I have seen the word “bitch” used repeatedly on the message board and in many posts on forums. While I would agree that some used it more generally (i.e., “Don’t be a bitch, just stop fapping,” or “Stop bitching and just get over it.”), some have used it to blame women for their addictions and miseries (i.e., “Not gonna let these bitches keep me down,” or "Fuck bitches, do this for yourself.). Again, these are not direct quotes, just something to demonstrate the content of what I remember reading. And even though the things I described as general were not directed at women, they are still misogynistic as they ultimately refer to women in a derogatory way. And the use of that word is not the only instance of seeing misogynistic language, but it’s an obvious one to point to.

Anyway, anyone blaming anyone other than themselves for their addiction or misery is just deflecting their own responsibility to heal themselves. When men blame women for their suffering, or objectify them (such as in porn), this is very dangerous because then these men may begin to hate women and perpetrate violence toward them solely based on them being women, not individuals. Combine that with porn, where sex is often rough or violent, and a society that values men more than women, and you get things like sexual abuse, etc.

It’s kind of like how the porn industry and other media and cultural values do violence to men’s sexuality and self-esteem through body shaming and unrealistic expectations like men aren’t allowed to express their emotions, etc.

The homophobic language I have seen is usually “that gay shit,” used in a derogatory way, (i.e., “I was only addicted to straight porn, not that gay shit.”). People could’ve said “gay porn” and gotten their point across. Do you see why I am referring to it as homophobic? It’s not necessary to say “that gay shit” if you are not homophobic.

I’m not trying to use “misogynistic” or “homophobic” as insults. Some of what I’ve read on Rewire is just the dictionary definition of those words. If we can’t engage in conversation without getting offended by words like this, we have very little chance to put an end to things like the porn industry.

“I just am kind of irritated how passive aggressively you attacked us then asked us a question like you are about to go on a rant because we are all wrong and you have the right answer.”

Thank you for letting me know you were feeling irritated. That is helpful in clarifying your personal response to what I said.

I honestly did not think I was being passive-aggressive. But I will admit my questions about masculinity and misogyny + homophobia we’re leading and I regret that. I could’ve simply asked the question “What are everyone’s thoughts on masculinity?” So, point taken.

If you notice, I started the original post off by talking about what I really value about this platform. I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a place like this before, where so many men who have been hurt and afflicted by the porn industry have a safe place to share their experiences and to support each other. I actually think that is sacred.

But in my mind, there is a strong connection between how boys and men are taught to think of girls and women and how they learn to treat them in our society, and PMO. There is also a strong connection between self-hatred and shaming, and addiction. Self-hatred, hatred of women, hatred of gay people, and PMO are not happening in a vacuum. They are all directly connected. Because they are connected, I don’t see a way NOT to address them on an app dedicated to nofap.

Also, no one owns what it means to be a man or masculine. Even if most people in a room agree on political beliefs, that does not mean others cannot define themselves as men or masculine. For example, part of being a man and masculine to me is being a feminist.

Anyway @Special_Bird, I wish you no ill will and nothing but the best on your nofap journey. I appreciate your response and I hope Rewire continues to be a source of support. Thank you for responding to my initial post and giving us a chance to communicate. Please feel free to respond here or DM me if you want. I would be interested in your thoughts on this post.

Peace,
MJ


#6

MJ, this is not a feminist forum, you will find it dificult to make it one.


#7

A real man is the one who stands for himself, provide his family , take care of his parents, love their children. And make wise decision, a man who supports feminism to get laid is pussy…lol


#8

Same as @Thedevil mentioned but changes in last sentence “He should not be dependent on anyone”

I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.’
Said By- Mohammad Ali


#9

I defined how really it is alive, to experiente true emotion. Basically do what you wanted when you were happy, without any vices.
Of course, masculinity is a simple term of a human.


#10

It’s from a cultural perspective an interesting question since every culture has it’s own definitions.

At first: About bitching around and this kind of stuff. I think that is more of a miss-use of words. It happens in many areas in life. A word once had a certain meaning but with time it was used for different things. The word now has it’s original meaning plus the one giving to it. We think way to little about the real meaning of the word. Only look at how often (especially americans) use the word awesome and look at its real meaning coming from to be in awe. I guess, if someone say: “that’s gay” or “don’t be a bitch” they don’t think about the meaning of the word and only see what these words are used for in the now a days society. (which I think is a bad thing)

About masculinity: I associate it with strength, posture and a certain body type.
Being a man is a completely different thing for me. I don’t see why a man should have a different role than a woman (except giving birth :smile:). It’s about being caring for the feelings of your friends (male as well as female). Supporting them and doing all the good stuff women do too. I personally don’t see why there should be a protector and a protected in a relationship. We protect each other in different ways. Sure, I’m stronger than my girlfriend, so i can give her physical security but she is my haven if i feel down or mentally damaged. And then it is my role to accept that I need to talk about my problems.


#11

I forgot to write "not be "

I corrected it now

Men need that hero’s journey culture back for them to not be dependent on anyone but society is killing masculinity

Men nowadays are just grown up boys, weak and unreliable

MAKE MEN GREAT AGAIN!!!


#13

For me being a man means taking full responsibility for your acts, whatever they are, actually living what you say, having values and following them (this doesn’t mean you can’t change values, on the contrary, it is sometimes wise to think about your values to change them if they don’t fit anymore.
I don’t think a man should not listen to his emotions, or always serve others before himself. This is just a matter of values. For me, being a man is more about responsibility and choosing a way of living that fits you. All the rest is, according to me, only accessory.


#14

I am a feminist. I use this forum. Therefore, this is a feminist forum. If we do not attack k each other, there will be room for who everyone is and everyone’s opinions.

Thank you for your response.


#15

I am a feminist because I support women and people of all other genders including men. Misogyny hurts men too.

Thank you for your response.


#16

Awesome! (Lol) I appreciate your points about language and how usage changes but also remains the same. Also, thank you for sharing your thoughts on how we protect and support each other in different ways. Thank you for sharing your response.


#17

I disagree with some of what you are saying, but I appreciate your response. Thank you.


#18

Thank you. I appreciate your response. I am curious, is this your definition of what it means for you to be a man, or a human being? To me, the values you are expressing are ones that I feel like many people aspire to, regardless of gender.


#19

How can a women understand what manculinity is?


#20

Thank you for this question. Have you ever seen or known a masculine woman or a feminine man? Masculinity is traditionally associated with men and femininity with women. However, masculinity and femininity are social constructs or a way that we try to make sense of the world and each other. But anyone can be masculine or feminine regardless of their gender, or they can have aspects of both.

For example, our society says, “men have short hair,” therefore short hair is masculine. But many women also have short hair, and they are considered masculine too. Yet, some may still consider them feminine because they are women. In er cultures and at different points in history, men have/had long hair, so long hair was probably considered masculine at that time. In some Native American cultures, men still practice growing their hair long as an expression of their heritage and cultural tradition, and these men are considered masculine, even though having long hair is considered feminine in the larger culture.

So my point is that anyone can be masculine, feminine, or both. Women can be strong. Men can be vulnerable. Women can protect their families. Men can raise babies in a nurturing way. I think people of any gender can understand masculinity and femininity and use those aspects of themselves to heal themselves and each other from destructive ideas that lead to terrible things like PMO.

Does this make sense?


#21

@Thedevil @Special_Bird @adequatemonty @miguelangel.povedasanchez @krishvamsi30 @weir @Desconhecido @neveragaintw @amadeus.muench @pierretomas18
Hey y’all. I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who have posted here so far. I am so impressed with the number of men on this app who are working so hard to improve their lives and work with their addictions.

Believe it or not, you are already doing the work to see women in a different light. First, you had to see that PMO was unhealthy for you, so you decided to stop participating in a cycle that is perpetuating violence against women, and violence against yourselves. The porn industry highjacks our minds and bodies no matter who we are. Then, you started to work on your addiction, on changing the way you think and live radically. That takes so much strength! Next, you have been supporting others on the app in very tender ways, even if you don’t think of it that way. It really touches my heart to see men supporting each other in this way because society would like to see us fighting each other. And finally, you have been engaging with me and each other about our ideas of gender and how that can contribute to destructive things like PMO. Honestly, that takes a lot of guts and the world is better for your efforts.

I am really impressed and honored to be part of this community. Thank you all so much. Let us continue to support each other.

:pray:
MJ