To put in simple terms, complete emotional mastery over oneself. Every other trait that we call masculine stems from it.
So what you are saying is
biology is just bullshit
Testosterone and estrogen are the same
And god made men stronger than women to nurture babies
I heard that feminist have no brains and today I got the proof @MJ2019
It’s a nice sentiment to think that men & women are the same, and we’ll get to a utopia where women prefer men who are soft and emotional, but that is only an opinion held by a small number of people.
Though I’m not certain I’d be satisfied with that for myself - as I know I wouldn’t feel complete if I didn’t have to strive.
If your lucky, or wise, and in a committed relationship from your youth, showing your feelings is natural. Man will still be full of testosterone wanting to work hard and make things work - if not the relationship dwindles, and he becomes lazy, cherry picking the bits he likes, either eventually loosing her to “a man” or having a one-sided, or toxic relationship.
Why is it, it’s only teenage girls and a little older show interest in me these days? It’s so not cool.
Get later into your life, and you’ll see the majority of women do not choose guys, but strong men choosing them.
Sensitive, feminine guys like me, naively think women choose men, but it just isn’t the case.
Only young, feminine girls do (or put out that signal) because I’m a lot older, manlier than their age group, and a little wiser - or at least exhibit that demeanour.
I think most women, if not all, deep down crave a real man that has his house in order, and isn’t afraid to say “No”… Or run into a burning building to save their cat.
Yes, for him to show emotion is a strong thing because it shows he isn’t afraid, I can think of examples where a women has said to me “aww cute, you’re opening up” but do it often without putting up a fight, and you’re a bore and obviously haven’t got it together.
But for a women this isn’t a problem for men, just sensitive and feminine. And, I don’t mind at all.
Yes, there are social constructs, but they may just simply be a reflection of nature.
Women are a lot more aggressive these days (especially the feminists I know) and I actually feel further from them than I ever have, and actually feel in conflict with them over who is more hard-working and is going somewhere in the world.
They don’t go for the soft, open, feminine guys (unless they’ve been with them from a young age) but either the strong, quiet types, who know to lock up those emotions, only giving glimpses of that feminine quality or the guys that simply. do the choosing.
Luckily, I have the strong silent trait, that works when I’m disinterested and seriously doing NoFap, but if I’m always disinterested, I’ll only ever have girls looking at me from a far.
Ironically, I’ve been skeptical of ‘The NoFap Superpowers’ but when I was on a good streak, minding my own business, particularly women couldn’t stop looking at me - I started pursuing a nice lady who was very keen, (I had a few stumbles with pmo because I was a bit too excited) I started to show some interest, taking initiative with kindness, and now she’s completely lost interest. And I’m just that ‘nice guy’ whom everyone likes.
I believe there’s something much larger at work than our ideas and wishful thinking, but biology at work, through pheromones and testosterone.
All this talk about masculinity does make me question, why are feminists so obsessed with it, and not “what is feminine?”
It’s as if nobody believes in it anymore.
What I believe is masculine, is muscle, testosterone and having your house and emotions in check.
Yes, women can be masculine, and they very much are these days, but never fully.
I don’t like either extreme. Neither is it right, that a man has to be masculine all the time nor that a woman needs to be feminine all the time.
Definitely there is a biological difference between the average men and average women (don’t not why some feminists always fight that, because that is neither good nor bad. It’s just like that). There will absolutely never be a time where men are the same as women because we are just not the same. I don’t know why we should be. We should be treated equally, have the same opportunities and so on. But we shouldn’t be the same like it is proposed in all this gender neutral stuff which i find ridiculous
@Aoshigreen the things you said are true but not only for men. Imagine to have a wife who is always “feminine”. who never oppose your opinion, always is kind. that would be horrible. Neither do I wanna have a wife without an own opinion or someone who doesn’t have her house in order. that would be awful.
typical masculinity may attract women at first. but I don’t think that this is what makes a long and healthy relationship. My girl friend often says that is horrible if I have a bad day but don’t talk about it. She can clearly feel that something isn’t right but not knowing what it is. That’s where the feminine part of me can help her a lot. When I talk about my bad day or why I feel sad, we can both feel better afterwards. She knows what the problem is and can help me to feel better
So, i find it stupid to say a man always has to be masculine, like strong, have his emotions in check, mustn’t cry and stuff like that. But equally stupid is it to say that a women has to be sentimental and that stuff all the time. In the end, each individual should behave like he feels suits him best. From climbing, I got more than enough muscles to be able to wear a tank-top and show everyone how strong I am. But that’s not how I am. Equally if a woman likes to be at home, look after the children and cook, than this is perfectly fine too. The problem starts where either side, feminist or anti-feminist starts to say how a person needs to behave. Like the men has to help at home or the wife has to go to work. Both should have the chance to do either thing
Dude did you read «No more Mr. Nice Guy»? If not it’s the book for you
To me, being a man is not a matter of gender. I mean being a man like when you say «be a man bro», and that’s the definition of masculinity for me
Thanks for the recommendation mate
Reading and enjoying
Ah thanks guys for helping me respond, I want to continue the discussion with you MJ but I’ve just been so busy with work and school, I’ll respond soon.
I did not say anything about biology in the response I posted to you. Masculinity and femininity are not biological, they are social constructs.
I said, “Women can be strong. Men can be vulnerable. Women can protect their families. Men can raise babies in a nurturing way.”
Note the word “can.” I did not say “Men HAVE TO be this, women HAVE TO be that.” I was just trying to point out that not everyone follows a stereotype or our idea of what masculine or feminine.
I’m not trying to destroy your idea of masculinity. I’m just presenting different ideas about gender and masculinity and femininity.
Also @Thedevil, I think we may be getting terms confused here. I did not say anything about testosterone or estrogen in my original response to you either. Of course, biological males are born producing more testosterone, and biological females are born producing more estrogen. I am not disputing that fact.
But males and higher levels of testosterone do not necessarily correlate to someone being “manly” or masculine. Likewise, females and higher levels of estrogen do not necessarily correlate to someone being “womanly” or feminine. Even if a biological males is straight, he may still have attributes about his personality or presentation or body shape that we consider feminine, and vice versa for women. And there is nothing wrong with that! Men can be manly and women womanly too, there’s nothing inherently wrong with how people express their gender identity, which I distinguish as different than biological sex. Sex is the parts you’re born with. Gender identity is how you think of yourself on a spectrum from masculine male to feminine female. There are many places between those 2 where a lot people feel comfortable expressing their gender identity.
There are also a lot of other gender identities out there (and there are different biological sexes too, such as intersex when someone is born with a combination of both male and female parts), but that is probably for a different discussion.
Thank you for continuing to engage in this conversation, @Thedevil.
Masculinity is one of the goals, which every man should aim to. To me its pretty wide term, which is build on other fundamental values like:
- being organized
- being openminded
- having goals
- taking care of yourself and others
@Unleashed_Saiyan thank you for your response.
Could what you said also be true of femininity?
How do you define femininity?
@ReloadingSacks, could these also be aspects of femininity?
How do you define femininity?
Again, thank you to everyone so much for joining this conversation! I really appreciate everyone’s contributions even if we don’t agree with each other. Talking like this, sharing thoughts, opinions, and feelings is how we create society. We are creating society right now!
I keep seeing folks listing attributes for masculinity, which is what I was originally asking g about, so thanks for sharing your definitions of masculinity. Now, I’m getting curious: what are your definitions of femininity?
A guy who has high testosterone will be more manly and risk taking
A women who has high estrogen will be more feminine
Depending upon the testosterone and estrogen levels one’s body is shaped according to that.
For me, I find the perfect definition of femininity when imagining a rose.
They are beautiful, they are sweet, they are tender and they decorate the earth with their beauty. But they also have thorns that make them strong and that make them brave so I think that femininity has nothing to do with being vulnerable.
Hey sorry y’all. I had to factory reset my phone. I’m back in the game. Looks like this thread is done unless anyone has anything else to add. Peace, y’all, and thank you for participating in this convo and for keeping up the nofap.