This is a brilliant piece of writing presenting some interesting history about anti-masturbation.
This article is a little off-topic, but I thought it would be of interest for any one interested in fitness. There are some anecdotes and success stories that are particularly encouraging for skinny guys like me who’ve believed all our lives that we could never build any significant amount of muscle and the word “fitness” itself wasn’t part of our vocabulary. The truth is we’re actually got the best opportunity to build fast, as this article attests.
What a garbage article.
This feminist moron must be thinking that “strong and independent woman need no man” is good but men self help groups are harmful.
It is rather interesting.
I do agree that the incel side of nofap is rather disturbing and confusing (we see some of it on this website as well) and the woman hating is really excessive in some people. About things like that, the article is right.
Of course, it seems to be written by a woman though. So I personally doubt she knows what we mean are trying to achieve via semen retention. The best she can understand of it is a form of body dymorphia like eating disorders. Which I do not agree with anyway.
An important thing I feel, to keep in mind when reading articles like this (especially from well known sites like Wikipedia or Rolling stones ) is that most of the owners of such sites also have high stakes in the ■■■■ industry. Hence they will always try to subconsciously promote it in young individuals. Take Wikipedia for example. It’s nofap page is a little insulting and really tried to degrade nofap as a waste of time. People have tried to edit it (you know wiki is publicly editable) and give it a more neutral standpoint at least, but somehow unlike other articles on wiki, this article always ends up being re-edited to the original. I’ve heard the founder of wiki has ties with adult entertainment industries hence the above condition, but I don’t remember the source
Incels were already a problem to begin with. Nofap is simply another tool added to their arsenal. And like anything else they had, it could probably help them out. If an incel by chance does get on a good streak he will improve his life significantly and would at the very least contribute to society.
If he actually conquers his urges he’ll automatically stop seeing women as sex objects. It’s another question whether he still hates women after that, but if he truly has conquered his urges he won’t really be psychotic.
The men who express a dislike for women but aren’t necessarily wanting them (or a relationship with them) would probably come in MGTOW category but I don’t see how that’s a problem. They aren’t hurting anybody, and are more focused on their personal goals and other stuff like that. And just because they express a general dislike for women doesn’t mean they are hateful like incels. They may have women in their family they love.
I’d consider myself among them. I express a general dislike for women, especially the 3rd wave feminists. I’ve admitted it myself that I’m quite a misogynist.
But again I’m very close with a woman I found on this forum itself (not the girl of this diary, but someone else). And we have exchanged contact beyond this forum.
I’ve said it to her as well that I usually wouldn’t “respect women” and she’s fine with it.
There are some things she agrees with, like she wants a traditional gender role in her life.
There are other things we disagree with, but regardless of it we’re still close.
Would you brand me as a hateful incel?
I am not that familiar with MGTOW, but the way you described it it seems like they are just normal people who had a bad experience with a relationship with a girl hence they are hurting over that and chose to express it this way. I don’t think it harms anyone, as long as they don’t enter a relationship with a women by chance, because then it could be abusive.
Well, what you may have not realized is that what is considered misogynistic today would not be what would be considered misogynistic decades ago. Because I don’t really think dislike for 3rd wave feminists makes someone MGTOW. A lot of guys who prefer traditional women (myself included) we don’t like the ideals newer feminism promotes (not the that ones that women need fundamental rights, the newer more sexualized ones seeking simply for disharmony and chaos).
Maybe you had a traumatic relationship which is why you have a dislike for single women, but not all are bad.
Maybe you are not a MGTOW and maybe you are just a traditional conservative guy who likes women that are confident and embrace the elegant, quiet femininity of a traditional women. I know I am like that.
Again, I don’t know the whole context, but I feel this is what I mean before.
You don’t seem to hate women, maybe you just had a bad relationship with a girl and have generalized all women to act like her and therefore dislike them. But in reality, perhaps, you are just someone that likes a traditional woman like most conservative guys on this forum, myself included. Of course, most modern women may act like how you dislike, but there are still women that act traditional that you will like. Maybe you just need to meet the right person.
I also don’t really like the way modern feminism has gotten most women to act, especially with regards to promisciouity and lack of accountability in general, but that is just my opinion. I don’t force it to others, nor do I dislike women, I simply disregard it. I will just work on building myself till I find a woman who can embrace her femininity with enough confidence to not need all this brash noise and we’ll see. I already know a few girls like that, but since I have some ways to go with regards to improving myself, I am not trying to get into a relationship with anyone at the moment. But @Nep_12 I think you need to remember that though they are rather few, there are still some traditional girls out there.
But I guess all this is invalid if you hate all women in general, and not just the toxic ones, but from what you said, I don’t think this is the case.
I wouldn’t agree to this. Because women and relationships aren’t the centre of their life.
They’re simply going to keep away from women which don’t fit to their taste (the strong and independent kind).
If they find a traditional woman though, they would give it a chance. But they know that such women are in short supply (especially in western society) so all they do is pursue their hobbies or a goal. I’d recommend you to google what MGTOW is and especially see the full form.
I have some very strong opinions which I usually don’t let out as it takes away the harmony among people. One of them would be “women aren’t really intelligent”.
So yes I’d consider myself a misogynist. Do I care? Not really. And regardless of the gender, I do try to help someone if he/she genuinely needs it and if I’m capable of providing it.
I’m a lot clearer in my thoughts and I also realize that it doesn’t necessarily meet the consensus and I’m fine with it.
I’d also add that they’re secretly hoping that the society would collapse on its own since men wouldn’t get involved in it anyway and women are going to cry about it and that they’ll understand the importance of men.
They’re just taking a backseat and enjoying the show (I’m one of them too, also compliments my INTJ vibe )
That is true. However that’s not the entire truth. I have also given time to study female psychology and have gotten to some (extreme) conclusions, which is why I’m unable to respect the gender as a whole. Of course I’m still (good) friends with a few women, and I don’t usually bring these things up because what’s the point in getting into conflicts?
But yes, more or less they do know that I may have some strong opinions because I give off that vibe. But they have stayed with me and there’s still mutual respect because maybe there were times when I helped them for something and it worked really well.
I also know my mother loves me like crazy and no matter what happens she’ll continue to love me like that.
I wouldn’t say I hate them all. But yes I’m still a misogynist. I just know better to not let it consume me.
I want to add another point. I usually don’t associate myself with any tags like this.
Or even something like this
I have a fairly good grip over my identity (after a long standing identity crisis) and I feel like these things don’t mean much.
So am I an MGTOW? Maybe, maybe not. I don’t really care. Same goes for the INTJ tag (if you remember you were the one to tell me this, because prior to it I identified as an INFJ).
Or even the misogynistic tag. Maybe you are right and I’m not really one. Maybe I’m right because I hold really strong opinions. Doesn’t really matter.
Yep, I did so. I kinda seems more like the male-response to feminism more than anything else, from what I could read. Unfortunately most sites about MGTOW are not easily accessible, so it was not easy for me to find out a whole lot about them. But both MGTOW and modern day feminism:
- are for the benefit of one gender, considering the other gender to be lesser
- aim for a life of aloneness, without the involvement of the other gender, especially in marriage
- often consists of people who have a bad experience with the other gender
- has several members that take the ideology rather far to the extremist side
- wish to support various ways they feel their gender has been oppressed
Maybe you mean that women are more prone to make decisions based off of emotions rather than facts and logic. I would agree that making decisions based off facts and logic is better, and I do find it annoying at times when my friends who are girls make choices based off purely of emotions, but rather than considering them more stupid, although one could assume that if they wanted to, I feel it is a difference that is to be celebrated. Because if all decisions were made purely based off facts and logic, things like mercy and kindness would never exist.
I am not sure. I think you are just a nice human being wanting to help others. Maybe you just don’t like some aspects of women in general, but perhaps instead of hating them you could over time try to understand that they are different and try to learn more about the ones worth knowing in your life.
yep that is rather noticeable. Especially in America.
But true masculinity is not passive inaction, the really masculine men are more focused on raising up good families, with strong foundations, and teaching their children and young men around them what it means to be a real man in this world.
yeah. It is better not to throw yourself into boxes like that.
INTJ is just a personality test, it has long since been proven that it’s not the best typing test (I’m talking about the personality test scheme as a whole).
You just need (in my opinion) to take accountability for your own actions, if you don’t mind me saying. Instead of saying “I don’t think women are as intelligent as men because I am a misogynist,” maybe you could instead think more about why you consider them less intelligent. Always good to be open minded.
I already said this
I don’t say anything out of whim.
I had the hateful phase and I’ve grown out of it now. I’m in the indifferent phase.
I think of MGTOW movement on similar grounds.
Although you’d find some really hateful people there too. But a lot of them are also pretty chill(and simply don’t give a fuck), which I believe is quite lacking in incel stuff.
I really wouldn’t subscribe to that too.
And I’m gonna sound rude - real masculinity (for society’s benefit) can go to hell.
I very much believe that (modern) society doesn’t appreciate men and they need to be reminded of it. Obviously men wouldn’t go out to do campaigns like those obnoxious “strong and independent” women.
They’ll simply disappear from the society because they don’t owe it much.
I do welcome the bro code and keeping some ethics between the bois you hang out with. And helping a bro (or even a sis) out if he’s suffered due to feminism and stuff like that.
I also welcome things like helping out the women in your family whom you love. Other than that though, men don’t owe this (feminist) society anything. Chivalry and stuff can go fuck itself.
I don’t know of any MGTOW communities, which ones do you recommend?
That’s interesting to me, because it is a different POV than mine.
I guess that is what the MGTOW mindset is, right?
So I guess that’s where we differ. Because for me, I think real masculinity is when you do the right thing, what a man would do, even when you don’t get appreciated for it. I continue to help others, even girls who have acted in toxic ways with me in the past, simply because that is who I am (I don’t go out of my way to help them, and definitely am guarded around them, but I would not deny them any help that I would give to someone else).
I guess you don’t find it worth being masculine if you are not appropriately appreciated for it, but I do, because I’m not doing it to get something out of it, I’m doing it because that is who I am.
Maybe the analogy may be wrong, but you would be like a smart soldier who can see that the empire is about to fall, hence makes the smart decision to hide away and wait for the chaos to settle so that once everything dies down, they can make the best of it and grow strong, while I would be one that prefers to make sure my sword is heard even when I am in the smaller army against multitudes because that is what a soldier does. And the tide of the battle always changes because of these people, just as we are seeing in modern day with men who are not afraid to confront society about their wrong ideals rather than just staying passive and waiting for it to ruin.
Very true that men don’t owe society anything, especially considering how it treats men. But I feel that’s why men are great. We don’t do things because we owe anyone else anything. We do things because we owe God and ourselves it, to say that in the end we have tried our best and not been passive. But that is just my point of view. It is different from yours, but both are definitely interesting and it has been nice talking about it with you.
I don’t know either.
My conclusions are due to my personal observations for months on social media (eg. youtube comments and twitter and more).
And I have watched some YouTube videos too.
I stopped doing that now.
I have a friend who is an ex incel and he told me how horrible they are. So I drew conclusions.
I don’t know everything, and wouldn’t claim so.
However I believe that I have a good enough understanding owing to all those months I spent.
Again, I don’t really know. This is definitely a part of my personal mindset. I’ve observed that many MGTOW folks speak of self improvement (like we do on this forum) so maybe it’s something like that.
I guess you are an idealist which demonstrates your young age. As you grow older, it can change.
Now I would say things can be a bit more complex than that too. I’m definitely petty in some cases, but not always.
I’ll put it this way
- I can help a stranger regardless of their gender, since I don’t know them personally. I’ll do it and move on with my life. And I wouldn’t expect something in return.
I do this because my female friend on this forum helped me without expecting any reward.
So I let it go out from my side to the world, since the world gave me something on its own.
I don’t live in a totally westernized society myself. Had I been in one, I probably wouldn’t help others. Especially women.
I’d also help my family because well they are family. And not to expect anything in return. It’s not conditional. And they’ll do the same if I need some help.
I wouldn’t help someone who’s been toxic to me, because these people don’t deserve it (yes I’m very petty here)
And even this isn’t because I expect a reward. It’s because of my anger and resentment.
This can also be situational because my mother can also be toxic sometimes but I know she loves me. I just let it slide and move on with the day.
There are some cases (eg. woman who betrayed me) where I wouldn’t help them even if they are (hypothetically) going to die. Or whatever else happens. I don’t owe it to them. There are some obnoxious rich women (and people in general) I know and I wouldn’t be helping them either.
I had a female acquaintance whom I had helped regarding her depression. We stopped talking after a small disagreement (not really toxic, but she didn’t interact and I continued with my life)
She called me months later and was asking for help. I offered to listen. She told me some cringe stuff about her boyfriend and I immediately fired back at her that I’m not some vent out that she can use. Or we can say I refused to help after listening to the matter.
Also it was really cringe and getting on my nerves.
This is what I can think of now, I’m sure things can be even more diverse than this and I’ll act accordingly.
I don’t think it’s always about a reward, but I’ve become more selfish and less giving to others. I don’t see anything wrong with it.
When I was younger, I had identified narcissistic traits inside me. I tried to change myself and thus as a result became a doormat for many (women especially).
Now I embrace my narcissistic traits again.
I have an ego, and I believe in tit for tat.
I love myself more, and wouldn’t hesitate to cut people out if they don’t offer me anything valuable.
Bro what in the world is going on here
Well, I’ve seen a fair bit of life, and I’ve finished two decades as well of living it (I think we are around the same age).
But I think we should not let the world change us, but rather we should remain true to what we are. There are numerous men far older than both of us who still have this mindset…which is why I think mindset is powerful. Because like the quote goes, " Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way"
Yeah, and even in the cases you said below, I guess this isn’t really an outlook of life rather its more a personality thing. I just tend to see the good of people in nature while you tend to take a more intellectual and guarded approach. I guess both have their pros and cons, and there’s nothing more to it than just us being different in temperaments as humans. Religion always plays an important role here as well. Views on rights, forgiveness, and gratitude can change based on that as well.
just a discussion bro
Yeah like I said before, this is just your life experiences and temperament. Someone else can go through the same issues and come out with a different response. And belief system also plays a key role here again.
But this is all very diverted from the original topic I figure we can just leave it as it is.
It was getting interesting though