Any Christians 2020?

General Discussion
151

I think we can end this argument with 1 verse. The first thing God tells us to do.

Genesis 1
28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:

By this verse we can see ultimately whats good in the eyes of God. Is masturbation fruitful? Does it bring about anything good for the kingdom of God? No, neither does it honor him. & with the own verse you quoted @Cubenix it says ejaculation makes one unclean. We’re told to keep our bodies holy in the new testament and that we cannot do if we are unclean.

Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Also @Cubenix im very worried with ur quite open views of Christianity. The bible is what we’re meant to follow and by those standards your view of sin is only sin when u come to the judgement that it is is very worrying. Should we not be in constant battle with our flesh? We are meant to follow the spirit, not the flesh.

Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

You are meant to be anew creature in Christ if you really are his sheep. Your spirit is meant to not want anything to do with sin. But it is a constant battle between the spirit and the flesh. Does Jesus not forgive then say “Go and sin no more.”

Romans 7
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Finally i think these last verses are some of the greatest that really shape a healthy understanding of salvation.

Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

1 Like
152

@Sacred Leave it brother.

Let’s end the discussion. No matter how many Bible verses you quote or how sensible they are, a man who is right is his eyes can only be corrected by God.

If God wants to correct him, God will reveal it. I believe we have shown more than twenty times enough of verses and advice. Let us not enter into controversy or deabtes or anything.

Brother I don’t think it’s a view of Christianity.

Let’s keep praying and encourage one another here.

3 Likes
153

Okay lemme ask this then I think we all can clarify it then.

Let’s ignore the other texts for now just put them aside and look at Exsodus 20. The 10 commandments.

Let us judge it in this way if it is wrong or not.

Lemme ask this way. If I masterbate what of these 10 commandments do I break?

1 Like
154

Okay brother @Cubenix , assuming

  1. If you are still under the Old covenant and want to ignore the entire New Testament and all of Paul’s/Peter’s/James’ and so on’s works
  2. You want to ignore all that Jesus said while he was on Earth, and thus base it on the Old Covenant
    ok…

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20 excerpt)
And God spoke all these words:
2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
Nope. When you masturbate you are idolising yourself above God. You deem that the pleasure you get from it is more important than pleasing God. You feel there is nothing wrong in it at all. Broke this law.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 “You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
I have serious doubts that you are honouring your parent and the legacy they leave behind, if they are true servants of Christ, when you masturbate.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
You commit adultery in your heart when you masturbate.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
One masturbates by lusting after pretty women. They’re not your wife, so you’re definitely coveting after something of your neighbours.

Before you argue that some of this is New Testament logic, if you want to stick to Old Testament logic, I guess you should be okay to masturbate, just head down to the Temple and offer a sin offering now and then. Thanksgiving offerings are important too.

Brother, wake up :slight_smile:

Here’s an Old Testament reference too!
“The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
“when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them,”
declares the Lord.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. -Luke 22:20
Looks like Jesus has instituted a new covenant too.

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. -Galatians 3:29
Looks like we’re the new Israel too!

That’s why,
Everyone here saying that masturbation is bad doesn’t even need to look at the Bible to know that. Like it says in vs.34, we know it in our hearts, because God has put it there. His Spirit dwells in us.

Brother, if you haven’t already, please accept this new covenant under Christ Jesus. He is our saviour.

And then, if you are still assured by God that you are not sinning, like I have already said time and again, please go ahead.

Discussion ends here I hope. Though I have no idea why we’re still talking about the Laws given to the Israelites in Canaan in 1250 BC. God has given us more than that. He has given us teachers, pastors, a conscience and, most importantly, his Son.

Soli Deo Gloria
(all quotations are NIV I believe)

1 Like
155

Well, no I still disagree.

I am with you on if I do it and it is more important than God which I also said countless times. Then I do sin. Not to say here and there I do it to break His law= self control.

Well, my parents didn’t really talk much about it. Haven’t say it is wrong and also well they haven’t caught me. Even if they did they would probably just be shocked and like say it is a natural think and it ain’t wrong. If I masterbate and it is wrong then sex would be totally in the same league even with my wife. Sex with her would be a sin too. Sex is a natural part of life and masterbation is part of a natural part of life too.

Sex with your wife is a sin too if it became more important than God too.

The pleasure will also be more important than God everytime I have sex with my wife too like with masterbation. As you have putted it when I break that commandment.

Mmm… I looked up adultery’s def and to my surprise = voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse. This is adultery nothing more nothing less. So I need a sexual intercourse to actually be a adulter. So that also excludes that law I don’t break it in anyway.

Well, I don’t do it infront of a girl’s photo or for a specific video and I don’t desire any women. I just do it. I don’t need that stimulation to do it I will feel the urge and just do it. Nothing has change much when I relapsed I just did it no porn no nothing.

The thing is I don’t feel any wrong in what I said and all the thoughts and examples I have given made sense to me. I know I evade any form of wrong.

What about you then? All I see are flaws here and there. Nothing gives sense at all.

  1. I mean what I understand is to think of a sin then you’ve done a sin.

  2. If you do a sin for the right reasons it is okay.

I mean if I innocently masterbate with the intent to evade sleeping with someone else I still sin. I am an adulter. =>not really according to the def thereof.

I believe my parents will be much more happier with me that I masterbated rather to be weak and slept with any girl. As well another sin evaded.

But if I kill someone it is wrong, but if I kill someone in the name of God I am right done no wrong or kill someone in a war it is right.

  1. God has changed…

What is the difference between God in the old Testament and the New Testament.

Nothing why ignore the old covenant and just accept the new. Both are still with us nothing is to go away.

Certainly not the 10 commandments it is the root of our faith.

If God hated gays then He would do that now too. If we sin He will judge us one day upon it and not everyone will make it to heaven. In revelations chap 7. It states only 144 000 people will carry the seal of God. These are the ones chosen out by God. These will go to new Jerusalem.

In revelations a third of the Human population with be killed. Chap 9 : 15. And follow on that everyone with the 3x6 digit name on them are not going to make it and they shall suffer.

We know not how to love God in another way then to serve Him through the 10 commandments. And through this we give Him thanks for His mercy He gives us everyday even for every breath we take. It is just His mercy.

The bible also teaches us to love God is to follow His commandments. No matter how many new covenants He makes this is the “default” we must live by.

So with the new covenant stealing is okay, lying is okay, killing someone is okay. You can do as you please as along as I love God and myself and others and Jesus died for my sins and thank Him for that. Then I am fine. O don’t swear, don’t think even think of looking at the girl at the bar that’s wrong and don’t just don’t get me started on masterbation. Man it is so wrong. Not even the see can clean you off if you do either of these stuff.

Go ahead and steal that’s good. It is honest profession nowadays. ( well actually for politicians it is and for insurance companies and medical sceams) totally fine.

Jokes aside… but wait something is not right why do I get arresed for murdering that guy. Wasn’t it right… oh yeah I forgot our wonderful modern laws and justice system say it is wrong. Aww man would have always wanted to become an assassin… or a pro thief. This doesn’t make sense for me tho. God said it is wrong now kinda forget the old laws and say it is okay thanks to the new covenant and it is incorporated, but yet another guy tells you it is wrong in our modern society laws then yeah sure it is wrong who questions the government? Right?

Wake up really that is just like wait what??? Something doesn’t add up 1+1= 4. I don’t get that… just don’t.

  1. For me I said the bible learns us guides us so we can live a religious life.

We all mentioned self control and have said it countless times.

What I see is masterbation makes us “unclean” we bathe we get “cleansed” again. See no repentance or offering required…

We both said making masterbation more important than God is wrong…

I mentioned that to with more practical examples, like skipping church and masterbate rather, or masterbate and then skip reading the bible or praying is wrong. Masterbate to another “god” is wrong.

What I said to masterbating infront of someone wrong makes them adulters and fill them with desire is wrong. => masterbating indecent is wrong. But in private I say not wrong.=>
But yet I am still wrong… can’t fully understand that as the bible said not to be sexually indecent. => not really in any form harming anyone in any sexual way so I ain’t doing any indecency to any one.

  1. The way I think the works of Paul/ Peter/ James.

They are guides not laws. By this what I wanna say ethically they want to guide is to lead a better life to be different from the world. Not to cuss and have sex or touch girls indecently that would lead to sin. Breaking the 10 commandments. Not to drink till your drunk as you might curse God and break all the other commandments maybe. But it is a guides not laws. To act in love to our follow people.

The basics still stand. Don’t steal, cheat, lie. Etc.

Just a think about that for a moment on what I understand you are saying to me.

157

Not sure where you came to this conclusion. It’s never stated sin is okay in the new testament, just that we are saved from the law of sin if we really are followers of the Christ. Sin is still wrong, and if you sin willfully your salvation isn’t secured. Understand what it means by willful sinning. It means it’s not against your spirits will to sin. Also here’s a video talking about some of those issues you brought up for God changing his morality throughout the old and new testament. You should check out other videos from this channel they give great information.

Also here you go brother @Cubenix. Here’s a video talking about this very issue of masturbation. Hope it helps.

https://youtu.be/wD0k-e4mMCc

2 Likes
158

Why do that? The whole bible is what we follow. We get knowledge from everything we aren’t supposed to pick and choose. The reason Christians mostly look at the new testament now is because we understand that we are no longer under the old covenant. This doesn’t mean we simply ignore the rest of the bible. But yes infact one might say we ought to give more focus to the new testament because we are currently under the new covenant. But we still have to read and understand it all. Also the 10 commandments are not our only commandments from God. Jesus gives us so much more in the new testament. God reveals even more to the disciples so that we would follow.

Let’s try to be more supportive towards each other here.

2 Likes
159

@Cubenix At this point, I don’t think anything we say is going to convince you otherwise. Why don’t you just continue the masturbation and we’ll go without.

You break the (Old and updated from then) Law. It’s a sin. Period.

Sex with your wife is a sin? You are clearly going away from everything the Bible teaches and common sense and even logic just to defend masturbation here.

Have you heard of this passage where Jesus says that if you look at a woman with lust you commit adultery? I hope you have, considering that you seem to think the Bible only consists of the Old Testament.

So basically you are just trying to justify your lack of self control…

These things can only be discerned by the spirit. See, I’m pointing out that you have clearly left the Bible and logic to defend masturbation. If besides that general statement, if you could provide quote when and where you found the flaws, I would be happy to rectify them.

Why is it to you that the dictionary definition is totally more important than the words of Jesus?

Basically, this whole time you are just defending your poor thought life. You have no control over what you think and you think list and act out on it.
Brother, there are actually Christians who control their thoughts. The take them captive and make them submit to Christ. You have no control over your thoughts at all, which is not how we as children of God should live.

Read the Bible. There’s a difference.

So basically, everything Jesus did in Earth was a joke to you? :thinking: What logic do you follow? I don’t seem to follow it…

No idea where you got this concept…

Again, ignoring the Bible and logic and giving weird examples no-one spoke about to justify your lack of self control and want to masturbate.

Well brother I think you misunderstood what I’m trying to say. Please read through again.

Continue masturbation then, just please don’t say that the Bible says that masturbation is ok. If you’re so sure of your stance, why not ask your pastor? Or visit any Christian website about masturbation.

160

If you read further I said to make sex more important then God then it is a sin… I explained it as so far.

Okay lemme ask this then let’s take away that you can abstain from sex or masterbation.

You have a girl to have sex with or you could masterbate what will you choose to do and why?
Married or unmarried. Not married to the specific girl in the question another girl and far from your wife.

For me married or unmarried I would choose to masterbate. Because sleeping with the girl in both scenario’s is wrong.

So I do apply self-control away from the girl instead of falling to the girl. Practically to me my intent here is a righteous one. So therefore I according to my knowledge and what the ten commandments tell me. I did not sin. I choose to stay away from the girl.

I didn’t disobey God or anyone else like Onan did. That was wrong of him because he was selfish. That’s what God didn’t like about it. Not that he masterbate to aviod the women of his brother, but to act selfish not to give his brother of spring. Again intention of the deed. Is exclamated.

162

Brother you only put yourself in such situations. Christians don’t put themselves in such situations only. Falling into this is a failure of your self-control in the beginning itself.

You keep ignoring all the logic and Biblical advice everywhere and keep falling back to this example in all your posts. It’s already true that this case in only when you let sin control your thoughts. Bro, you can control your flesh through Christ, don’t let your flesh control you.

2 Likes
163

Well, I felt good on what I said gave plain examples a few were repeated and well, easy questions with no simple answers and well, a soured conversation has arised. Well anger your hearts no more. Trouble your thoughts no more.

I shall leave you be thanks for the conversation and perspectives and prayers. I will pray for you all too. Goodbye and well in the end we shall find our answers one day.

4 Likes
164

Good :slight_smile:
Praying for you too mate
Stay strong :facepunch:

2 Likes
165

51rx3G9xWoL.SY580

This is the great news!

5 Likes
166

Correction: This is the greatest news :stuck_out_tongue:

4 Likes
167

Yes, the greatest!

I’m wondering should we create a new topic for 2021. Or is this one fine?

4 Likes
168

@Sacred I guess this should be fine, but you could always hold a poll if needed. Also, there are some good discussions on this thread.

4 Likes
170

Thanks for sharing! @JonSnow001

2 Likes
171

Hello guys,

I am an Orthodox Christian. I follow the more Greek Orthodox tradition. I am always excited to speak with other Christians and encourage them to overcome their struggles.

Feel free to add me and I’ll add back and have a special note in my mind to remember you all in my prayers, particularly when I am struggling to overcome urges myself.

We are united together in the body of Christ so let us do our best to live up to this.

God bless.

3 Likes
172

Here in 2021. Time to overcome this and continue to work harder for my Lord

8 Likes
173

Hey everybody,

Name is Kyle. Honestly just looking for some brothers in Christ to help encourage and keep accountable to. Love talking politics and theology so send me a message if you’re ever bored. Anyways, sharing code is 6z373d. Feel free to add me. Still stuck in the same bondage everyone else on this planet is. Nothing to hide here!

God bless all of yall,

Kyle

5 Likes